Re: Configuring virtual servers without DNS

James,

Actually I did manage to think my way around this, but thanks for the thoughts & advice none the less.

For what it's worth, here's what I did: First of all, using the domain registering & DNS hosting firm's web interface I set up a new host for the domain (www1.thedomain.com) that was pointed at my server. When that new DNS entry had propagated across the net

New DNS entries should take almost no time to 'propagate'. if a DNS server does not have it, it will end up getting it from the master server.

I could then set up a new virtual host of www1.thedomain.com in WebTen and enter www.thedomain.com and thedomain.com as 'server aliases'. Then when I changed the DNS entries for www.thedomain.com to point to my WT server, the content was ready & waiting as the DNS change propagated and visitors began to come to the new (my server's) IP.

This sounds right. you managed to totally avoid any downtime, and the WebTen interface made sure there were no DNS issues

But I still think it's a silly system that requires me to wait for the DNS to start pointing at my server before I can set up a virtual host!

The system is a little more practical for new virtual hosts, but it still makes sense. In my experience, many DNS error go undetected for users until they see the big 'DNS failed', 'DNS mismatch'. or the wrong IP address initialized. see the previous post at the bottom of this message for an example of this.

My complaint still stands: without this work around it would mean that visitors would be hitting a nonexistent virtual host on my server before WT would allow me to set up that virtual host.

I guess this is true, but it is only in the case of changing servers, and the downtime due to this would only be a few seconds while you add the virtual host (or none with your work-around).

As a great philosopher once said, "Doh!".

Is there nobody at Tenon who knows why WT needs to check DNS against virtual host setups?

It simply needs to know what IP address to initialize if it is supposed to add a new one. Back in the day, WebTen was the only server that could do this. It is still a lot easier than going into a UNIX or OT file to add IP addresses. Also, this is one of the few check a normal user has that they have set everything up (including DNS) correctly. days of downtime are inevitable if somebody makes a switch such as yours too fast with out making sure (or WebTen making sure) the DNS is correct.

More in sorrow (and cliche) than in anger,

Well, I see your point, but the admin server is supposed to be easy to use. if you want real flexibility, it is there too- in the config files.

James Harvard ;-)

At 4:57 PM +0000 11/11/00, James Harvard wrote:
WebTen in its finite wisdom won't let me set up a virtual host for the domain because it trys a DNS lookup and finds that the specified IP is not one assigned to my server. This is rather inconvenient to say the least.

Inconvenient, but This is something a lot of WebTen users would not figure out on their own. This is what makes WebTen great though. A simple, easy to use interface, with a lot of power under the hood if you want to dig around in conf files. as an advanced user, this is something you might want to consider checking out in difficult cases such as the one you mentioned, we in support would be happy to help.

To say the least. I fail to see why one cannot simply type the IP address into the web admin.

Well, for some users this may seem better, but I wonder how many DNS and syntax errors would go unchecked in this case

Is this 'feature' really necessary, Tenon? ... This is not A Good Thing.

I think it is- for a novice user.

I recently blundered and configured a virtual host with DNS configured so as to point this host to the OT stack on my dual-stack setup. I caught my mistake and corrected the DNS within minutes but it took weeks to get my WebTen back to normal.

This is exactly the reason that WebTen acts as it does. without the error in WebTen I wonder if you would have caught the mistake so soon. Deleting the problematic virtual host via the admin would have fixed the problems you were having.

So, now what I'm wondering is this: Can I bypass the DNS check when setting up a new virtual host by adding the virual host manually to the appropriate (httpd.conf?) config file, before doing any detailed config via WT's admin server?

certainly, beware the consequences of syntax errors though.

I wouldn't recommend it. WebTen will do the lookup and if you look at the web admin page for that virtual host, it will display, in red, "DNS error!"

This is only a warning in the admin server. it will not effect apache.

I've had WT stop serving altogether for errors more minor than this.
My recommendation for all things WebTen: Do it By the Book.


Tenon Tech Support
--Eric

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