Re: xserve vs

One thing to think about is upgrade costs.

If you will never use the server features of OS X Server, then running workstation has advantages. When the next version of OS X comes out, you will only spend $129 to move up, vs. the full server price of $999 (since a web server will likely have more than 10 users).

I guess you could keep OS X Server -- since it comes with your Xserve -- until which point you decide to upgrade, but I think just sticking with workstation all the way is cleaner. That way you won't start building dependencies on anything included with server.

Also, my experience with OS X Server is that it isn't quite as "solid" as workstation. By this, I'm referring to all the support software that is included with Server. It's all OK, but just doesn't seem as nicely built as much of what is available from 3rd parties in OS X. I honestly feel I can find better 3rd party solutions for everything that OS X Server does than what Apple packages in OS X Server. I think this is because OS X Server is developed and used by a relatively small group of users vs. workstation.

One point I should make is that I am not using streaming server yet. So this might be an advantage of OS X server. But maybe Darwin Streaming Server might be an alternative to Quicktime Streaming Server?

Also, I built my own 1U Dual-Mac OS X server for less than the cost of an Xserve. So, buying two OS X Server licenses would have been rather costly (additional $2000 in cost).

Here is more info about my server:

http://www.markandjo.com/markblog/?p=3

-Mark

Ron Grayson wrote:

thanks

I need to move to rack u. And we may have to add an xserve raid. Has to do with database and streaming of files...

I have been on Macs since the beginning and on the internet since it began. OS9 webstar. Then X with iTools. We have 10 servers. As I got newer machines the others went to become name server, mail server, etc. I have always had one server that ran server for the streaming server part.

I am putting in an xserve because of the space 1 U and I need the speed for dynamic website and database web apps.

I live on TB2. And currently use Cyberguage and Pagesentry for monitoring. I have looked at intermapper but it is $$$. Also I am looking at other unix apps that can run on OSX like Nagios. A bit more work but ....

We maintain dns on 3 different networks. Given the amount of machines and the different services I do think we need more than an "are you up" monitoring system. Also we are getting into bandwidth that will require monitoring and billing so I am looking for a more sophisticated NOC type app.

I guess the question is if you shut down the admin applications for group management and services management, is the installation the same as client?

Or does server rearrange things on the system so that parts are now in different locations on the box. Also, can server run without those apps. For example, the firewall is not in the system preferences on server ... it is in the service admin gui.???

On Jul 16, 2005, at 9:27 AM, Glenn A. Bookout wrote:
Howdy:

On Jul 16, 2005, at 01:03, Ron Grayson wrote:

I currently am running iTools on towers. But need to move to 1 rack U environment.

You only have 1U available, or it's just rack mounting?

If only 1U the Xserve is probably the only option, but if rack mounting, have them give you shelves instead.

I have 1/2 cabinet and by juggling shelves we have 2 B&W G3 Towers, an iMac, a 4400 for DNS and power control, and 2 1U Linux PCs ( owned by a sub-renter, and definitely less secure than OSX from our experience ). Currently we're in the process of replacing the B&Ws w/ mini's, which is leaving large gaping holes of space.

We may get an Xserve in next year to see what we can do w/ some of its H/W redundancy and RAID, etc.

I like running on the client but wonder if there is a way to get the xserve monitoring on a client.

Not sure, but others can probably suggest some free/shareware alternatives. We use a couple of free outside services to ping the servers and PowerKey to control power for forced re-booting. Someone elsewhere also suggested the free SMARTReporter for drive monitoring.

A combination of SSH and TB2 give all the remote access we usually need.

In the over 5 yrs. we've been serving on OSX ( starting w/ v. 1.2 ) we've had more problems w/ general CoLo failures ( power or network outages ) than we've had w/ our Macs, though we may have been Mac-lucky.

Also, why did most people abandon the server version.

A minimum of ~$500 just for the monitoring tools may seem like a bit much to some, but if I were serving a Fortune 500 company I would probably feel differently ( and charge a lot more ). Also, anyone doing a lot of file sharing would probably need a version of the server.

Does its services get in the way of iTools? It seems that server has an admin and a workgroup application that runs the services but otherwise it seems the same as client????

Basically so.

HTH.

Glenn
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