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Author
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Topic: Another month gone by...
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mtarr
Member
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posted May 19, 2002 09:41 PM
   
At this point another month has passed without xtools 1.1 or the CD and manual as promised THIRTEEN months ago. I think that we users are entitled to a full refund and explanation at this point. I would much rather go out and buy Exodus since xtools is clearly not being supported/developed in a serious manner.I would like suggestions about how users that paid for xtools should proceed? Or if Tenon wants to keep us as customers, some actual explanation and real timeline about release and ship dates. I suspect they have used our $$$ to develop other products. xtools had potential, but at this point 13 months is getting insulting and silly. -m IP: Logged |
RichardET
Member
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posted May 20, 2002 02:18 PM
I AGREE! I BOUGHT A LICENSE BACK IN SEPT., 2000. WHERE IS THE PRODUCT??IP: Logged |
Macgorilla
Member
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posted May 20, 2002 03:21 PM
I agree as well and I have been supportive of Tenon since Xtools was in beta. Xfree86 keeps making strides forward as Xtools stagnates. Hello?? Tenon?? We need a new version of Xtools bad!IP: Logged |
mtarr
Member
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posted May 21, 2002 07:00 AM
I suggest that if we don't get something concrete soon, we consider an open letter to the major Macintosh websites/magazines, as well as potentially a class action suit.Suggestions? IP: Logged |
macunix
Member
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posted May 21, 2002 01:28 PM
Well, I have one student who is an xmgrace plotter. it
crashed so much with xtools it was unusable. we installed
xdarwin and orobourous on her machine and haven't
had a crash since. I don't find xdarwin to be
much slower, either. i suppose i'll just eventually
convert all the machines to xdarwin/oroborous if a xtools
update doesn't come along quickly. not just any
update will do either - xdarwin is a moving target,
and the instability has to be fixed.IP: Logged |
jw
Member
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posted May 21, 2002 08:04 PM
I agree with "macunix" in that the update should be solid. The 1.0.4 has been working alright for me, buth the current 1.0.4p1 was a big step in the wrong direction. An update with some performance enhancements would be nice, but the 1.0.4 has served me well over the last year plus. The convenience of running "rooted" (dedicated display) in a simple application has been worth it for me. Other than window focus issues with fwm2, my problems have been crash log entries when I purposely choose to exit the application, and the awful instability of the 1.0.4p1 version. Unless 1.0.4p1 behaves badly only on my system, I don't understand why the download has not reverted to 1.0.4 unless there really is no serious business interest in Xtools anymore.IP: Logged |
Anita
Member
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posted May 22, 2002 09:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jw:
I agree with "macunix" in that the update should be solid. The 1.0.4 has been working alright for me, buth the current 1.0.4p1 was a big step in the wrong direction. ... Unless 1.0.4p1 behaves badly only on my system, I don't understand why the download has not reverted to 1.0.4 unless there really is no serious business interest in Xtools anymore.
The main download *is* 1.0.4. We know that the 1.0.4 patch level 1 is unstable and we advise not using it unless it fixes an important feature for you. (Our internal Xtools 1.1a1 has all the new features of 1.0.4pl1, so there is really no reason to use that unstable, interim release.) Now about Tenon giving up on Xtools. We have not abandoned Xtools. We had some internal problems and serious resource limitations which resulted in an interruption in Xtools development. As I said previously, we are now back on track and Xtools 1.1 is progressing. I don't want to give a date until we have hard information, but we have been criticized for not being forthcoming, so we will be quick to pass Xtools 1.1 information along. Meanwhile, don't hesitate to request Xtools 1.1a1, which supports XFree86 4.2. You can use the updated XFree foundation with 1.0.4 as well. Just send the request to info@tenon.com. -Anita IP: Logged |
sra
Member
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posted May 23, 2002 04:39 AM
Believe it when you see it. Like several others on this board, I paid for XTools when it was still in beta, and have never received a dime's worth of value for my money. There is a pattern here: long silence from Tenon, a rising tide of indignation from users, then a posting from someone at Tenon that "we're working on it," then relapse into general silence for a few more months, with no actual progress.I bought XTools for one main thing: to run xemacs on my mac. But despite a large number of fairly detailed complaints, the product has never come close to providing this fairly basic functionality. As far as I know, there's still no meta key support, and even ignoring that, xemacs is unusable because as soon as you try to resize the initial window, it snaps to a size that takes it off the screen and prevents further adjustment, menus stop working, etc. This is not a new complaint.... Their energy (such as it is) seems to go into marketing. I think it's time for XTools users to get the word out (for instance, to people who might be tempted to shell out $1000 for their latest (re-)package of web tools) about what a waste it is to send them money in the expectation of a functional product. IP: Logged |
jw
Member
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posted May 24, 2002 05:39 AM
Anita, thanks for the update. I'm rooting for you; Xtools had a great start . If you have really reverted to 1.0.4, please change the confusing text on your download link at url http://www.tenon.com/products/xtools/ It still reads:
"UPDATED! (Current version: 1.0.4pl1 - 9/21/2001: Approx. 23.3 MB download) " which made me think you have been posting the broken version all this time.
IP: Logged |
dwalton
Member
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posted May 27, 2002 06:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sra:
Believe it when you see it. I bought XTools for one main thing: to run xemacs on my mac. But despite a large number of fairly detailed complaints, the product has never come close to providing this fairly basic functionality.
I guess there are many of us in a similar situation. I bought Xtools mainly to run remote X clients and to use XDM, but it is so unstable as to make it useless. I'm still keeping my old Linux box around and have resorted to VNC to run remote clients from OS X. If Tenon has no intention to improve Xtools they should at least let us know - besides getting our money back, it would be nice to know for sure that there will be no more support so that I can remove it from my disk and put that space to better use instead of keeping Xtools on and waiting until the cows come home to know it I will be able to use it.
IP: Logged |
Moof
Member
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posted May 30, 2002 10:00 AM
I have sympathy for Tenon, but they have clearly dropped the ball on this one. I have posted, emailed and it is always the same repsonse:Xtools is not dead. New version coming. Then nothing. I can certainly understand how a project can get "off track" (budget/personnel/management) but paying customers should not suffer because of poor project management. Tenon should offer users their money back or offer them a license for a Tenon product that actually works. Tenon has been a good company in the past. Now it's time to do the right thing. Do something. IP: Logged |
Bob Bane
Junior Member
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posted June 07, 2002 07:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sra:
[I bought XTools for one main thing: to run xemacs on my mac.
Me too. I've been running emacs-on-aqua (http://emacs-on-aqua.sourceforge.net/) lately on my iBook. It's a little rough, but it's usable, which cannot be said for xemacs under Xtools. The meta key works, the windows don't randomly change size, and non-trivial elisp code loads and works.
IP: Logged |
dingdong
Junior Member
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posted June 07, 2002 01:57 PM
Hi, I'm an old Linux user. Out in linux world, everyone uses XFree86. But theres a little known company called XiGraphics. They have a rock solid X implementation that puts XFree to shame. I called them up today and asked if they could do a port of the AX( acclerated X server) to the mac. In return, I offered them the use of my laptop. I figured that they could get a double win. First, they could get a chance to port their server to the linux ppc distro (the linux ppc distros don't support the ati radeon 7500 card - which is what my laptop runs.. sigh.) Second, they could, since maxX is based on Unix, do a port of that server to the mac as well. I came up with this idea after I saw the posts on this board. I called and told them my idea, they called back and said they didn't think it would fly, and they're already on a budget (linux users have some religious trip against BUYING good software. XFree sucks, but because it's "free" it would be a sin to actually give a guy a chance to make a living on something that works right.) Anyway, I think that's a mistake. I think mac users would kill for a decent X server that runs FAST. So. Prove it to them. Go to Xigraphics.com and let them know that you want something that works. And if you are a mac user who doesn't see what all the fuss is about I have just one word to sum it all up "enlightenment.org"
I also suggested that they give the guys at tenon a call - look I don't care if tenon does it or XiGraphics does it, I just want a decent friggin X server.
later
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casmock
Junior Member
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posted June 12, 2002 10:00 AM
I have grown tired of waiting and have decided that my $$$ is simply gone. I purchased Xtools early on because of Tenon's past track record with products. I guess I'll just have to stick with Xdarwin and Orobor which seem to be serving my needs just fine.IP: Logged |
RichardET
Member
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posted June 21, 2002 07:35 AM
"Now about Tenon giving up on Xtools. We have not abandoned Xtools. We had some internal problems and serious resource limitations which resulted in an interruption in Xtools development. As I said previously, we are now back on track and Xtools 1.1 is progressing. I don't want to give a date until we have hard information, but we have been criticized for not being forthcoming, so we will be quick to pass Xtools 1.1 information along."-Anita I have been around long enough to know this does not sound good! I recall "DataBoss", a very promising C based database development system for DOS/Windows, which had a great buildup, then an even faster decline. I feel suckered by Tenon and a little annoyed with Apple for not building in native support for X Windows, instead opting for the boring Quartz/Cocoa GUI. Richard IP: Logged |
jw
Member
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posted June 21, 2002 01:54 PM
I'm not as pesimistic as Robert. Anita makes it sound like noone was working on XTools for a while. Assuming the other "fires" are out, a good manager would not redirect a developer to finish XTools unless there was a business plan to see XTools to release.IP: Logged |
Ibenew
Junior Member
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posted June 27, 2002 08:51 PM
As you can see from my moniker I am new to the Xtools discussion board.I have a simple (stupid?) question. Is Xtools for the server or client? Can I use it to remotely log on to other computers as and X-window client for say my work computers or is it for my work computers to run so I can do so? Dased and confused??? Thanks for any help you can offer. IP: Logged |
jw
Member
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posted June 28, 2002 10:12 AM
The Xtools is an X Server, i.e. it runs on your computer and does the display in order to allow you connect to a remote computer running the X Client. (The client/server terminology is backwards from what most of us think. Just think the server is serving the display to you.)Xtools is also very useful for working in the local shell, when no other computer is involved. Xtools can serve your favorite unix GUI working environment. [This message has been edited by jw (edited June 28, 2002).] IP: Logged |
allenw
Junior Member
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posted June 30, 2002 07:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Anita:
Meanwhile, don't hesitate to request Xtools 1.1a1, which supports XFree86 4.2. You can use the updated XFree foundation with 1.0.4 as well. Just send the request to info@tenon.com.
Why don't you just make 1.1a1 available as a "sneak preview" or "beta" download in addition to 1.0.4? IP: Logged |
Moof
Member
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posted July 25, 2002 08:26 AM
Sad really.IP: Logged | |
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